Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick told House lawmakers this month that he encountered Jeffrey Epstein on exactly three occasions and maintained no meaningful relationship with the disgraced financier, according to a transcript released Wednesday of his closed-door committee interview.
Lutnick, testifying before the House Oversight and Reform Committee, described the encounters as isolated and inconsequential. "Each and every one was meaningless and inconsequential," he said in the hearing. "I had no personal or professional relationship with this individual, despite the proximity of our addresses."
The first meeting occurred in 2005 when Lutnick and his wife were invited for coffee at Epstein's Manhattan townhouse. During that visit, Lutnick recounted to lawmakers that Epstein showed them around the residence and opened a door to reveal a massage table. When Lutnick asked why there was a massage table in the middle of his house and how frequently he used it, Lutnick testified that Epstein replied "every day and the right kind of massage." Lutnick interpreted the remark as sexual in nature and said he and his wife decided immediately to avoid any relationship with Epstein.
"He said it to me, and my wife is standing next to me, and we looked at each other, and we left," Lutnick told the panel.
The second interaction came in 2011 when Lutnick said he visited Epstein's home to discuss scaffolding. According to Lutnick's account, he sat in the foyer with his dog, waited for Epstein to arrive, heard what he had to say about the matter, and left. He characterized the visit as routine and forgettable.
A third encounter occurred in 2012 when Epstein's staff invited Lutnick and his family to lunch on Epstein's private island during the holidays. Lutnick attended with his wife, four children, another couple and their children, plus staff, totaling roughly 15 to 16 people. He described the event as unremarkable. "We sat outside, had lunch. It was boring. We left," he said.
The testimony came after the Justice Department released millions of documents related to Epstein in March, revealing that Lutnick had corresponded with Epstein after the financier's 2008 conviction for soliciting prostitution from a minor. This discovery contradicted a statement Lutnick made on a podcast last October, where he claimed he and his wife had cut ties with Epstein in 2005 after that initial coffee visit.
Democratic lawmakers pressed Lutnick on the discrepancy during the hearing. He had told podcast listeners that he was "never in the room with him socially, for business, or even philanthropy" after 2005. Lutnick attempted to reconcile the statements by arguing his podcast comment was meant to convey his personal intention not to be in situations with Epstein, which he claimed he honored.
"It is accurate as to what I meant, which is I, Howard Lutnick, as a man, would not be in a situation with him because I felt him gross and inappropriate and not having boundaries," Lutnick said, though he acknowledged the 2011 and 2012 meetings contradicted that framing.
Throughout the interview, Lutnick insisted he never witnessed Epstein engage in any sexual contact with minors, did not observe him receive massages from young women, and saw no underage girls at his residence or island. When asked whether he had heard rumors about the island, Lutnick said he had not and noted that widespread awareness of Epstein's crimes came only after his 2019 death in federal custody while awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges.
Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California, who has spearheaded congressional efforts to release Epstein-related documents, criticized Lutnick's performance after the hearing. "Now we know why that interview was not videotaped. If Donald Trump had seen the video transcript, he would've fired Howard Lutnick," Khanna said. "It was just contortions and lies. He made a farce of the English language."
Republican Committee Chair James Comer, by contrast, praised Lutnick for appearing voluntarily and said he found the commerce secretary "very transparent." Comer noted that Lutnick had corrected his previous public statements during the hearing.
Lutnick becomes the first Trump administration official to testify before the panel. The committee has also subpoenaed former Attorney General Pam Bondi, who is scheduled to appear on May 29. Since the Epstein files became public, some lawmakers have called for Lutnick's resignation over his past association with the financier.
Author James Rodriguez: "Lutnick's tap dancing on the distinction between what he said and what he actually did doesn't resolve the core problem: he was in a room with Epstein multiple times after claiming he wasn't."
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